Doug Pagitt

My first encounter with Doug Pagitt, if you could call it that, was by reading a chapter he wrote in the book "Listening to the Beliefs of the Emerging Churches: Five Perspectives." I found his chapter to be provocative. As I continued my research into the emerging church movement, I e-mailed Doug asking him for a radio interview. He quickly responded and we ended up talking on the phone. He was cordial and we arranged a time for him to appear my show.

http://www.solomonsporch.com/

Essentials
1. What is the Trinity?
2. Is Jesus a man right now?
3. Did Jesus rise from the dead in the same body he died in?
4. What is sin?
5. How is a person justified before God?
6. Can a person lose his or her salvation?
7. Is baptism necessary for salvation?
8. What is necessary for a person to be saved from the righteous judgment of God?
9. Should communion be taken only by Christians or is it open to unbelievers as well?him
Bible
1. "What do you mean by "theology is not the story of God, and it is not our story; rather, it is the understandings that allows us to connect the two." (Listening, p. 123).
  1. Question: What do you mean by the term "story"?
Theology

"There are far too many people inside Christian faith who feel the need to 'give a nod' to the theology of their church or tribe, but it really has nothing to do with their lives." (Listening, p. 123)
1. Question: Why do you use the word "tribe"?
"We are called to be communities that are cauldrons of theological imagination, not 'authorized re-staters' of past ideas." ( listening, page 127)
1. Question: Would you say that we should not tell people about the past declarations of doctrinal truths such as the Trinity, atonement, etc.
"God's intention for individuals and for collective humanity is to bring together full integration of God's agenda with our world -- "your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven" (Matthew 6:10). This was a prayer of participation and integration. Sin is dis-integration, while God's intention is integration." (listening, page 132)
"The call of God is for that which dis-integrates life (sin) to be done away with. For this dis-integration brings death, but integration brings life." (Listening, page 136.)
1. The Bible says, "Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death," (James 1:15). "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness," (1 John 3:4).
2. Question: Why do you say that sin is dis-integration and not lawlessness, breaking the law of God as the Scriptures declare?

Miscellaneous
1. "I think we would do well in understanding God as light and recognize that light of God in each one of us, and shining in all fullness in Jesus." (Listening, page 126)
  1. Question: What do you mean by the light of God is in each one of us? Does this mean that the light of God is in unbelievers?
    1. John 12:46, “I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness."
    2. 2 Cor. 4:6, "For God, who said, 'Light shall shine out of darkness,' is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.'"
    3. Eph 5:8, "for you were formerly darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light."
    4. See Col. 1:13
2. "Pelagius suggested that people were born with the Light of God aflame within them, even if dimly lit. This fit the Druid notions of the Northern Island region of his home. Augustine supported the Greek understanding of God taken primarily from the Greek pantheon imagery, and proclaimed that people were born separate from God." (listening, page 128)
  1. Question: Do you hold to either one of these views, Pelagian or Augustinian or do you reject them both?
  2. Question: I get the impression that you disagree with the idea that people are born separate from God? Do you?
    1. Psalm 51:5, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me."
    2. Psalm 58:3, "The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth."
    3. Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned."
    4. Eph. 2:1, "Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest."
3. "... I see in the story of the Bible and Christian faith God's love for and engagement in the world in all ways. I certainly believe in sin and forgiveness, but they are not built around a Greek judicial model of separation, rather around a relational call to return to life in full agreement and rhythm with God. So God does not move away in the midst of our sin, but he moves closer. Sin is atoned for and we are again integrated into the life of God. My understanding of this atonement is shaped more by ideas similar to those prevalent during the time of the biblical story it is by the Greco-Roman understanding that so influenced some of the early church's understanding." (Listening, page 134)
  1. Re: Separation
    Isaiah 59:2, "But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He does not hear."
  2. Question: How is it that our sin brings God closer to us?
  3. Question: Exactly how is sin atoned for?
  4. Question: Can a person be forgiven of his sins apart from the sacrifice of Christ?
  5. Question: Should a person acknowledge Christ's sacrifice, receive Christ, and confess Jesus as Lord, in order to be a Christian?
4. "If we hold that people are either right or wrong in their beliefs, and leave no place for faithfulness being understood as one being as right as one could be in their day, then we find ourselves standing above and not alongside those who have come before us (or are of a differing opinion near or far from us). ( Listening, page 138)
  1. Question: In their day, Arians denied the Trinity and the deity of Christ. Should the Christian church have come along side them in support and encouragement instead of saying they were in error?
  2. Question: Mormonism teaches that God came from another planet, has a goddess wife, and that we have the potential of becoming gods and goddesses of our own worlds. Is their belief right or wrong?
  3. Question: Islam denies the Trinitarian nature of God, denies that Jesus Christ is God in flesh, denies that Jesus was crucified, denies the sacrifice of Christ, and denies his physical resurrection. Is Islam right or wrong in this?
5. "We need not only discuss questions of how Christ relates to culture, but how Christ relates to humanity. I believe we need a far more humane Christianity (not to mention a more feminine Christianity - nurturing, caring, conversational, and process oriented). Our understanding of humanity will shape our understanding of spirituality. The theology of the modern church is well-equipped to engage with the questions and threats of secularism, but it is not prepared for the engagement with the spiritual world." (Listening, page 139)
  1. Question: Shouldn't our understanding of the revelation of God found in the Bible be the thing that we use to shape our understanding of what humanity is as well as non-Christian beliefs of spirituality?
  2. Question: Which theological perspective in the modern church are you speaking of?
Gnosticism
1. "The call of God is for that which dis-integrates life (sin) to be done away with. For this dis-integration brings death, but integration brings life. The need to have a more full gospel that jettisons as much as possible the tentacles of Gnosticism that have plagued Christian theology for centuries has, perhaps, never been more necessary." (Listening, page 136.)
  1. Question: Can you please tell us what these Gnostic tentacles are?
creation
1. "Einstein's theory of relativity may show that theology suggesting God as 'wholly other' then creation may be based on an antiquated metaphysical notion." (Listening, page 140)
  1. the Bible tells us that God is the creature of the universe, of earth, and of man. God existed before the universe existed there for this means that God's existence is independent of creation. This necessitates that God is 'wholly other'; that is, he is separate by nature from his creation.
    1. Pantheism - all is God, impersonal. The universe is identified with being God.
    2. Panentheism - God is in all, personal. The universe is identified with encompassing God.
  2. Question: Aren't you putting Einstein's theories above Scripture?
2. "The idea that there is a necessary distinction of matter from spirit, or creation from creator, is being reconsidered." ( listening, page 142 )
  1. This is, of course reminiscent of pantheism.
Questions
1. Is God ontologically distinct from his creation?
2. Must someone acknowledge Jesus as divine to be a mature and proper Christian?
3. Must someone acknowledge the physical resurrection to be a mature and proper Christian?
4. Is homosexuality a sin?
5. Is homosexuality compatible with Christian living?
6. Is man's nature basically good, fallen, naturally separated from God, or neutral?
7. should women be elders and pastors?

________________________
1. Webber, Robert, ed. Listening to the Beliefs of the Emerging Churches: Five Perspectives. (Zondervan: grand Rapids, Michigan) 2007.

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